organ

You are a hard man Sean.
I can understand that you might be pissed off with SU rejects who keep knocking on your door but can't you see things from the perspective of very young inexperienced bands. We went from performing in the school hall to the Medicine Bar and the Barfly courtesy of SU. Even rock legends have to start somewhere. To be fair as much as we hate what was done to us, the gigs put on by SU were actually well run with a very decent backline and sound which was pretty good. In the lower echelons of the rock scene we have had to endure sound which is complete shite on many occasions. Beggars can rarely be choosers. We were never let down by the SU team as far as getting onto the stage and being able to perform. We were let down because the judging was a joke, rendering the whole competition thing an absolute farce and the whole thing was much too expensive for fledgling bands like us. We realised that we could have farted onstage for our 15 minutes and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference to our progression through the competition. When we first saw the invitation to enter the competition, do you expect us to have had your wisdom and experience? We were completely alone with no-one to ask. We had never heard of the concept of Pay to Play, never mind the shonky goings on with Emergenza. To inexperienced bands the website actually looks exciting and glitzy, a real happening place! We are aware that it is just a cunning trap but how can we get that over to newcomers. That must be the priority here.

OK it's over to you. Please don't bite my head off. I'm the sensitive type!

Fine, you've got my opinion, you've got the opinions and views of others here and other places, you make your own choice.

From our many years of running a record label that's put out the first release for many a band who've gone of to good things, from my managing of bands on major labels and seeing it all from inside that big machine, from our choosing to do it the alternative way we do now, from our 20 years plus of putting out Organ in one form or another and having tens of thousands of demos and such pass through our hands and seeing hundreds of bands break through, from our putting on small unknown bands in London toilets and pubs - bands like Blur or Suede or Lost Prophets or My Vitriol or Dandy Warhols or Faith No More or blah blah...

I'm telling you nothing ever came of any band playing a Surface Unsigned Battle Of The Band Red Battle Emergenza indy Awards whatever the hell type event - name me one band who got anywhere playing one of these events please. The only thing you get from having your name on these bills is idea planted in people's heads that you're not going to be worth bothering with because there never ever has been anything emerge from any of these things and only clueless bands play them and if your clueless enough to do so then you're not going to be clueless when it comes to doing all the other things further down the line...

There are no short cuts, if your band is any good then get your demo in the snail mail and get it in to the hands of real promoters who put on the exciting bills - those LSash people are looking like good people right now, the Silver Rocket team, Worng Pop bill bands are always worth checking out, the real alternative webzines and magazines, the radio stations and DJs - work out which ones are going to take an interest in what you do and what you're about - we might not be the place here at Organ - fine if that's what you think, fine, send it to Artrocker, OK so Artrocker may not be the place, send it to Terorrizor or John Kennedy at XFM or Steve Lamacq at Radio One or Simon at Fierce Panda or...

If your music is any good and your band has anything to get excited about then we all start talking about it, playing it, writing about it, telling exh other about it and we all check the things out that the others are talking about.

Its taken To The Bones a year of hard work, they were hopeless first time I saw them but there was a spark and we kept watching - last week there was queue out of the door on a Monday night in London, all the labels and media and such were at their gig, thats all through the word of mouth buzz and the midia profile they've been building on the strength of their music throughout the year - they've got a good indie label now, a good management team, a glowing press pack and good debut album and most of that was from them sending out messy badly recorded demos 15 or so months ago, demos that had the spark of something special...

Choice is yours - do what you wish with the advise, good luck with it...

- THERE ARE NO SHORT CUTS AND MOST PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY THINK THESE SURFACE UNSIGNED GIGS ARE A BIT OF A JOKE.

And before you come back and say I'm being hard or I'm pissed of with SU or you - no, just telling you how it looks from here, i'm just trying to point you bands in the right direction... The choice is yours

Sean,
I don't understand why you feel that we disagree with your hatred of Surface Unsigned. We would gladly put the whole sorry mess in a liquidiser, including the employees, on full power. We have taken your advice fully and are working tirelessly, gigging within our local scene and are about to launch our first EP which will be distributed far and wide very shortly. I have stated many, many times that I have never seen anything worth having, come out of BOTB type events. We are aware that they are a waste of time but there are thousands of bands out there who are clueless and I predict that Surface Unsigned will have unprecedented entries this year. The sad fact is that the message is just not getting through. We have tried to shout very loud and put out warnings but it seems that no matter how strong our warnings, they fall on deaf ears. We must now move on. We were damaged by our experiences with Surface Unsigned, we have taken the time to warn others but now it is time to concentrate on our music and push forward. We have a lot of hard work ahead.

Its been great chatting to you. Keep up the good work. Lets hope that one day we shall see the demise of this horrible phenomenon, for music's sake.


Cheers,

PT

My band played Surface Unsigned this year. I do feel foolish now with hindsight, but needless to say we won't be bothering again. Once bitten, twice shy.

"Its been great chatting to you. Keep up the good work. Lets hope that one day we shall see the demise of this horrible phenomenon, for music's sake."

I don't think you ever will see the end of it and mainstream music is going to suffer... what we need is a strong underground that bands can both plug in to and just as crucially, SUPPORT.

we already have a strong set of underground networks and good gig promoters covering all shades of alternative music, get your music to them and if you have soemthing good the grapevine soon starts buzzing with the news - if you're not in to our tastes or what we're saying here at Organ then go explore the Club Fandango/Fierce Panda people's websites, or Artrocker or Subbacultcha or Terrorizer or KBY or Silver Rocket, or Losing Today or the Wrong Pop team or send stuff to John Kennedy at XFM or Steve Lamacq or Huw Stephens at Radio One or te rock show there or Bruce Dickenson at Radio Six or Tom Robinson or the Household Name people or A Badge of Friendship or those Slash Club people or Manchester Music or some of the many Resonance FM people or just go explore the web and see who's covering or playing music that fits in with yours and just get your music out there, get it in the snail mail and let your music do the talking - there's loads of people and places who will help get that buzz going if your music is good enough

"I can't emphasize enough how much damage being in Surface Unsigned did. Our morale was really crushed when we were dumped in favour of a really dire band. It also damaged our fanbase because they got a bit fed up of us pressuring them to buy tickets. As per your advice we retreated to our local scene and at last it is going really well. We have also managed to patch up our fan base"

said a band who don't wish to be named

A webpage from 2005

http://www.emergenzauk.co.uk/un_birmingham.html

JohnDTraynor wrote:Go here http://www.myspace.com/surfaceunsigned and read the comments from bands who have signed for next year or are intending to sign - it is so depressing. One band even expresses surprise that Surface Unsigned got back to him so quickly...as if they actually listened to his music. Just so dumb and annoying

I just had a look but there appear to be no comments from bands that I can see. Over 16,000 'friends' though. Soooo many gullible idiots. And what the fuck is Alan McGee doing on there? I realise his credibility went down the toilet years ago, but even so...

SeanOrgan wrote: if you're not in to our tastes or what we're saying here at Organ then go explore the Club Fandango/Fierce Panda people's websites, or Artrocker or Subbacultcha or Terrorizer or KBY or Silver Rocket, or Losing Today or the Wrong Pop team or send stuff to John Kennedy at XFM or Steve Lamacq or Huw Stephens at Radio One or te rock show there or Bruce Dickenson at Radio Six or Tom Robinson or the Household Name people or A Badge of Friendship or those Slash Club people or Manchester Music or some of the many Resonance FM people

Sean - since your advice is always worth acting on, I went looking for the people you mention above (you posted a similar list last week sometime). Many of them I got - a few remain elusive, despite an extensive Google and myspace search. Namely:

KBY, Silver Rocket, Wrong Pop, Bring on the Noise, Household Name and Slash Club.

Sorry to be a pain, but could you point me in the right direction? I've honestly tried my hardest to track them down.

Well the real point I was making is that there's a vast underground/alternative call it what you will network of labels, zines, radio people, promoters and and its a case of finding the people who are tuned in to your music and covering or featuring or promoting bands you fit in with.

Let me see, Silver Rocket have a My Space page, they put on alternative mathy Sonic Youthish Pixies type indie guitar rock in London and there bills are always good, KBY is Keith's Back Yard, long standing metal/hardcore/rock promoters based in London (we've done loads of co-promotions with Keith and his team). Household Name are a respected punk label with thier own shop in Camden - All Ages Records, once again London based, kind of Fat Wreck style punk/Ska outlet, Wrong Pop are based in Stoke, they've posted on here several times, the guys in Herzoga doing good things and putting on good gigs themselves, The SLash people have posted on this forum several times, see the gig announcements and such and see who's psoting on there

- but those names were all off the top of my head, I could easily have mentioned a different twenty people - Black Velvet zine, Nemesis To Go zine, Neon over at the Hope And Anchor, The Local people, the Goonite people, Violent Change Records. Progressive Ears. Case of following links, exploring the underground - we put up loads every week with each issue of Organ, there at the end of each review or all the daily news stories we put up at organart.com - follow those that interest you then communicate and exchange info and such. Do gig trades with other bands and such...

Nice one Sean. Thanks a lot for that.

I could go on - The Dirty Water club always put bands on that are worth check and do gigs the right way... they're on My Space as well

One day soon we shall build a whole alternative directory for people, bands, music fans and such - there's loads out there, great big networks and grapevines and if there's a good band the word gets out and spreads and doors open... all you have to do is put in the effort. Last thing you need to do is pay to play and full for the bulshit of things like the Surface Unsigned cattle market, your name on one of their bills just marks you down as a band with no clue and thus really not worth bothering with, checking out, covering or putting any time or effort in to

I think it was James on this forum who said playing things like Surface makes a band look second division. That's probably the best summing up of it I've heard to date.