organ

The content of the attached blog will come as no surprise to anyone who actively monitors the behaviour of certain promotion companies, but it makes for a little light reading if we're collecting examples of this sort of thing.

http://peteashton.com/2008/05/surface_u ... are_fools/

alas yes... These new band competitions are just a sham every single time, there are no shortcuts for you bands, if a band is good the music does the talking. I found one of these unsigned competitions promising bands that an A&R rep from ORG Records would be attending one of their London events recently. ORG as you know is our label, we don't have an A&R department or representative last time I looked, and if we did then the last place we'd be looking for bands is at one of these unsigned battle of the bands forced ticket buy cash in on bands type of events... if your band is any good you don't ever need to play these events, just get your music out to the alternative media and word will spread to the labels and such naturally - don't waste your time and money falling for these events...

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: D*****
Date: 02 Jul 2008, 00:13


Hello there ORG Records, JImmy here from D***** we are into semi finals of SURFACE UNSIGNED competition, last 42 out of 11000 applicants. 19th July @ Manchester Academy, hope you can come check us out, etc?? Please get in touch if interested in us.

thanks for you time.

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: ORG RECORDS
Date: 03 Jul 2008

oh dear, we never ever ever take any notice of any band fool enough to enter those Surface Unsigned things - a sure sign that a band has no idea about what they're doing, a sure sign theat they're going to be well, how can we put this? "Not very good"... go read the old blogs on the Organ page or the no2pay2play page. And I hope you didn't have to buy tickets and all that crap! Last 42? All that tells us is you have mates who come along drink and pay, doesn't tell us a thing about your music...

If you want our attention send your music in, if you're fool enough to play these unsigned battle of the vote for us showcase 'casue there will be loads of A&R people there honest guv events then please don't bother sending anything in, we already know you're crap and haven't got a clue, we don't need to hear your music...

Work it out and wise up you bands, stop being suckered in to all this crap, it really is depressing

From their blurb for the 2009 competition

Is there a registration fee?
There is no registration fee for bands to enter the Festival. However at your meeting there will be a one-off deposit of £25 per band in order to secure your first gig slot. You will receive the full deposit back on the day of your first gig if you sell 25 tickets, however there is no minimum amount of tickets you have to sell. Experience has shown that if we do not charge a deposit some bands will drop out on the day of their gig, leaving us with an empty slot which could have been given to another band.

Do I get paid for the gigs I play?
Yes, if your band sells 25 tickets or more you will receive a percentage of the tickets sold for your band. There is no minimum amount of tickets to sell. Simply bring any unsold tickets to the venue on the day of the show and give them to your area manager. All sold tickets must then reconciled before sound checks.

25 tickets or more: You receive £1.00 per ticket. (At your first gig this acts as receiving your deposit back).
50 tickets or more: You receive £1.50 per ticket.
75 tickets or more: You receive £2.00 per ticket.
100 tickets or more: You receive £2.50 per ticket.

It would be a deposit if every band received the money back when they turned up for the first gig. This is a FEE...pay-to-play

Bullshit, bullshit

how many more ways can these people invent to explain how their pay to play gigs that you have to pay to actually play aren't pay to play?

simple really, ask yourself who has emerged via Surface Unsigned in the past? Can anyone name one band who got their big break playing one of these things?

Doesn't need rocket science to work out that you're wasting money playing things and you're better off just getting your demos out and around the alternative underground media and just playing proper gigs

of course, what we should point out here is that Surface Unsigned ARE NOT doing anything illegal, beautiful morals mind you... leaching on the hope and dreams of new bands who don't know any better. if you want to play one of their events, feel free....

SeanOrgan wrote:of course, what we should point out here is that Surface Unsigned ARE NOT doing anything illegal, beautiful morals mind you... leaching on the hope and dreams of new bands who don't know any better. if you want to play one of their events, feel free....

*feel £25 hole in your pocket

*feel £25 hole in your pocket, plus petrol costs, plus that sinking feeling that you wasted your time and got your soul sucked and palyed with a whole load of bands that you couldn't relate to and...

Editor's note from the Surface Unsigned magazine is "As a die-hard group of music fans, we have taken it upon ourselves to hunt out the finest unsigned talent from across the country and, like with the Surface Unsigned Festival, give them a platform where they can reach the greater audience that they deserve. Also, having worked with bands from across the UK, we were eager to provide advice and industry information which isn’t always obvious but can often mean the difference between getting your band noticed or not.

With such a wealth of talent across the country, the task of digging up the best was an intimidating one and as such I would like to call upon budding musicians, journalist, photographers, promoters and hardcore fans to get in touch and make a noise about the bands we need to know about. With no other agenda than to get the best-of-the-unheard out to as many people as we can, the only way to successfully do that is with the support of those who care enough about their band to jump up and down and shout until someone listens!

‘The magazine’ has always been a slightly contradictory format in which to cover music, so I encourage you to use these articles as a mere starting point; check out the bands' MySpace pages, add them as a friend, tell all your friends about them, but most importantly go to their gigs; after all it’s the love of live music that drives the unsigned scene and that makes it such an exciting place to spend your time.
"

In an idle moment I sent them an e-mail pointing out the errors, as follows

"As a die-hard group of music fans" Should this be "as a group of die-hard music fans"? The clause describes the group as die-hard, not the music fans. Did the editor mean that the fans become die-hard when in a group?

"we have taken it upon ourselves" This phrase follows and seems unnecessary. Assuming the "we" refers to the aforesaid fans, who are constituted in a die-hard group, it can further be assumed that all their activities are as that group, independent and self-motivated. The emphasis on the group independence in this phrase is a cluttered repetition of a view already expressed.

"to hunt out" The preceding and this phrase can be combined (and reduced) to "we hunt out". However, "hunt out" is an odd pharse to use. I understand that the editor wants to convey both the purposeful hunting of new exciting music and the capture of it, but "hunt out" sparks images of a ferret being thrust down a rabbit-hole witha shot-gun waiting at another exit. Possible alternatives are "we hunt and capture" or "we hunt successfully".

Later, "like with the Surface Unsigned Festival" "with" is an interloper here; it should be removed to leave "like the Surface Unsigned Festival"
Later, "greater audience" This is a comparison, but to what? I realise that the editor means a comparison to an assumed smaller audience at the gigs where the bands perform currently. However, as this smaller audience isn't mentioned, the use of a comparative, "greater", is incorrect. "great", "large", "big" or another similar adjective would be correct.

Later, "we were eager" The switch to the past tense is a mistake.

Second paragraph. "the task of digging up the best was an intimidating one and as such" Firstly, "digging up" returns to the ferret down the rabbit-hole theme. I accept that there is a desire to use a more expressive verb or phrase than "find" but this phrase posits the unknown bands in a dark, dank, seperate underworld that is too dramatic. The word "discover", though over-used in music journalism, does convey the intentions well.

"the task ... was an intimidating one and as such" Secondly, there is an incorrect change of tense here: "was" should be "is"

"the task ... is an intimidating one and as such" Thirdly, there are two repetitive emphases here that merely clutter the sentence and dilute the force of the intended depiction of the task (as intimidating). There is no need to refer back to the task with the use of "one" - it is the same sentence. Similarly, "as such" is redundant because, obviously, all that follows "and" is read with the intimidatory condition of the task in mind - it is the same sentence. Therefore, the clause should be "the task .... is intimidating and", that is, "an", "one" and "as such" removed.

"I would like to call upon" There is an abrupt change of style here to a polite and reserved style. Such a style is fine in isloation, but it sits uncomfortably here.

"budding musicians" Surely, you are seeking to attract musicians who can play their instruments to an acceptable standard for live performance, that is, beyond the stage of being "budding" musicians?

"journalist" This should be plural.

Later, "make a noise about the bands we need to know about" Two neighbourly "abouts". "know about" could be changed to "be aware of", or just remove the second "about".

Later, "best-of-the-unheard" Although it is common practice for music journalists to hyphenate in order to delay the reader's skimming of the sentence and force him to appreciate the meaning, this hyphenation is clumsy to speak. I recommend removing the hyphens.

"out to as many people as we can" "out" is superfluous; "to" is sufficient on its own.

"to successfully do that" Firstly, this is a split infinitve. It should be "to do that successfully"

"to successfully do that" Secondly, "that" should be "this" because the demonstrative pronoun refers to the agenda described earlier in the same sentence.

Go here http://www.myspace.com/surfaceunsigned and read the comments from bands who have signed for next year or are intending to sign - it is so depressing. One band even expresses surprise that Surface Unsigned got back to him so quickly...as if they actually listened to his music. Just so dumb and annoying

JohnDTraynor wrote:Go here http://www.myspace.com/surfaceunsigned and read the comments from bands who have signed for next year or are intending to sign - it is so depressing. One band even expresses surprise that Surface Unsigned got back to him so quickly...as if they actually listened to his music. Just so dumb and annoying

Yeah!
Just had a look at that. Is there any need for all that adulatory, sycophantic crawling?
Get out the sick bags! Where's the emoticon for vomiting?
They will learn; as they watch the Surface Unsigned bimbos disappearing into the distance, their money truck piled high. Sigh....................

and that one of the things with events like this, you kind of instinctively know that all the bands are going to be crap, or at least assume they are don't you? If there is a good band on the bill they're probably doing themselves more harm than good. I mean any bands who says to me that they're playing one of these things automatically make me think oh well won't bother with them then - on the other hand if I see some band I've never heard of on a bill on something like aSilver Rocket gig or something I at least go to their My Space to see and I'm kind of expecting them to be good when I get there..

SeanOrgan wrote:and that one of the things with events like this, you kind of instinctively know that all the bands are going to be crap, or at least assume they are don't you? If there is a good band on the bill they're probably doing themselves more harm than good. I mean any bands who says to me that they're playing one of these things automatically make me think oh well won't bother with them then - on the other hand if I see some band I've never heard of on a bill on something like aSilver Rocket gig or something I at least go to their My Space to see and I'm kind of expecting them to be good when I get there..

Having been through the Surface Unsigned mill I understand your disdain for the whole operation but I think that we need to be careful here. Just by the sheer numbers now appearing in the 'competitions,' there undoubtedly will be some good bands hiding amongst the dross. I think that we weaken our argument against the bad aspects of the situation if we don't err on the side of balance. There are those out there who have not realised what is really going on who might seek to dismiss our opinions as the rantings of loony, arty obsessives, striving for some sort of utopian perfection that doesn't exist. Sorry guys that is bullshit, we just happen to have enough intelligence to see when something is shonky! It is also important to show that we are willing to adopt that same intelligent mindset when it comes to consideration of the facts. On our Surface Unsigned journey I didn't see many truly talented bands for sure but there were a few. In my mind the real problem was that those bands often got blown away in the early stages, not because of their lack of talent but because they didn't sell enough tickets. How could an environment structured like this ever nurture any kind of talent. We saw a young band that was just an AC/DC tribute act reach the final because they were able to harness bus loads of fans. They were undoubtedly nice lads but where is the commercial viability of a heavy metal tribute act these days? At the same time we witnessed a great band who were unique and exciting just dumped on one of the nights we got through.
The present set up means that Surface Unsigned deal in revenue not in the pursuit of creativity or talent and watching them trying to pretend otherwise is nauseating!
The key fact is that, a band who stumbles into SU or the like through ignorance or misunderstanding is not automatically a bad band. I think that they need our support not our derision.
It is the people who set the snare who anger me most!


Cheers,

PT

I can honestly say I have never heard a good demo from any of these bands who claim to have won a Battle of THe Bands gig or a thing like Surface Unsigned. As I've told you before every single demo that ever comes in here gets lsiten to properly. So yes, I do assume any band silly enough to not see what these things are about straight away are going to be at best very average.

I mean come on, you only have to look at the Surface Unsigned webpage to know how stupid it is to even think of getting involved.

Clueless bands on the whole make clueless average bland music... Sure there maybe one or two who fell for it in the early days of their band lives and allowed themseves to be ripped off but hey, if eveybody shouts then the next new bands will know not to fal lfor it. No, I have no time for any of it

if bands want our support then they ca nsee what we do and where we are - up to the bands, we're not some charity though, no support group for people who can't work it out.